4xv running issues just off idle.

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Re: 4xv running issues just off idle.

Post by galaxian »

Hi Newsh, I have 15's in these carbs, the are from a 2000 bike I think. Ok, I thought I read the carbs were 3 1/8 turns out somewhere, my mistake, I'll try 2.5.
Do I recognize that name from the old original R1 forum about 20 years ago ?


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Re: 4xv running issues just off idle.

Post by newsh »

galaxian wrote:Hi Newsh, I have 15's in these carbs, the are from a 2000 bike I think. Ok, I thought I read the carbs were 3 1/8 turns out somewhere, my mistake, I'll try 2.5.
Do I recognize that name from the old original R1 forum about 20 years ago ?
R1-forum.net, back when we were on dial-up? Yes you do! What was your handle back then?
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Re: 4xv running issues just off idle.

Post by newsh »

Here’s my old sig pic!

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Re: 4xv running issues just off idle.

Post by galaxian »

It was most likely the same one, I didn't have anything to contribute so I didn't post much. probably read every post before I bought my R1 :-)
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Re: 4xv running issues just off idle.

Post by galaxian »

I didn't buy mine until March 2000, a leftover 99 model.
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Re: 4xv running issues just off idle.

Post by Moise »

galaxian wrote:Hi Newsh, I have 15's in these carbs, the are from a 2000 bike I think. Ok, I thought I read the carbs were 3 1/8 turns out somewhere, my mistake, I'll try 2.5.
Do I recognize that name from the old original R1 forum about 20 years ago ?
3.125 turns is the setting in the service manual for the 5jj with the #15 pilots.

My 4xv doesn't run rich with that setting. It needs choke to start almost all year round, and needs it left on for a minute or 2 before it will idle.

Interesting...



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Re: 4xv running issues just off idle.

Post by galaxian »

Mine started this morning with no choke....
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4xv running issues just off idle.

Post by newsh »

I’m pretty sure we used to leave the screws at 2.5 turns and lift the needles half a clip. That was with a slipon

Of course it all depends on the wear on the needle jets (which in this case have been replaced) and the float heights.
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4xv running issues just off idle.

Post by newsh »

galaxian wrote:I didn't buy mine until March 2000, a leftover 99 model.
I bought mine in 99 but it was written off in (I think) 01 at the Nurburgring when a car ran into me. I replaced it with a cheap one that someone had started to streetfighter then in 05 moved up to the 5VY.
The 4XV I have now I bought in 2016 before the prices started to go up, it only has about 17k on it even now.

Last year it started running on 3 cylinders after starting and would misfire until the revs were up. Trimming the plug leads and fitting new spark plugs sorted it. Previous owner had it on the dyno and jetted and I’ve not looked in the carbs, it has a modified airbox and K&N though. Have to say, I do love riding this bike.

Here she is

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Re: 4xv running issues just off idle.

Post by Moise »

galaxian wrote:Mine started this morning with no choke....
Did it start without choke before you fitted the service kits?

Certainly try the mixture screws at 2.5 turns and see if it makes a difference.

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Re: 4xv running issues just off idle.

Post by Moise »

Like Newsh, I love riding my 4xv. It has now done about 85,000 miles, of which I've done about 40,000 since I bought it 7 years ago. It still goes well, especially after replacing a faulty EXUP servo motor earlier this year.

I'm looking at buying another bike but will probably keep the 4xv and sort out a few issues. The engine could possibly do with a refresh, but it runs so well I'm not sure that it's necessary. It does need some work on the suspension, especially the forks, to cope with the worsening condition of our roads in NZ.



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Re: 4xv running issues just off idle.

Post by galaxian »

Very nice guys, mines a little rough round the edges, it was poorly stored from 2014 until a couple of months ago, life just got in the way. I'm enjoying the quiet standard can at the moment lol.
I've been reading about these bikes suffering from cracked cylinders, has a potential cause been identified or is just down to luck ?

It would sometimes start without choke before the rebuild kit was installed, but it's definitely running richer for sure. During the week I'm at a different location from the bike, so at the weekend if I get time to play with the bike I'll set the screws to 2.5 turns.

I also have a Dynojet emulsion tube kit somewhere, must dig it out, maybe fit it over the winter.

I have a technoflex shock, ohlins 9.5 springs, Ktech compression circuit, and the builder installed a rebound kit from another bike, can't recall which, so the suspension on mine works quite nicely :-)
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Re: 4xv running issues just off idle.

Post by jompy »

Welcome in Colin
Hope you get the 4xv sorted 👍
I'm another one for trimming the HT leads back although i only trimmed mine 5-7mm
Theres been a few thoughts on cracked liners , one of the R1 guru's from facebook says it was the poor fuel anround 2000 that caused it , some say it's over heating . For the over heating theres a thread for a honda accord heat sensor that kicks the fan on at about 85°
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Re: 4xv running issues just off idle.

Post by galaxian »

Hi Jompy, I did that when I installed the 2nd set of coils, no harm in doing it again.
Cracked liners, aside from removing the head, is there any other way of checking? Only heard about this problem on R1's recently, I really hope it's not, any other symptoms?
Already purchased a SRF098 fan switch to install at some stage.
Many years ago I bought a Dynojet needle jet kit, but broke a corner off one of my carbs trying to remove a float bowl screw, bought a low mileage replacement set so never installed them, anyone ever installed one of these kits? Do you think it's worth doing?

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Re: 4xv running issues just off idle.

Post by newsh »

I wouldn’t fit those early dynojet needles, they wear the needle jets and you end up running rich. It’s not worth it for a slipon anyway.
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Re: 4xv running issues just off idle.

Post by jompy »

Main Symptoms of cracked liners is the bike not starting when it's warm , best example is when you've stopped for fuel and the bike just keeps turning over . I've known people carry on using the bike for a few years with cracked liners as the only problem on most of them is the hot start issuse . Yes best way to tell is to take the head off but you can do a compression test to see if theres a problem , but that just tell you that theres a leak which could be sticking rings ( due to years of being sat or crap old oil ) , bad valve or head gasket .
You say you have a set of 5jj carbs , personally i'd check those to see if they've already been rejetted as both my 4xv set and 5jj set were running 132 mains when i got them and i'd also be fitting the 5jj set as the #15 pilot jets in them give a better midrange . Also i'd be setting the Exup up properly and checking it , theres a great "how to" on replacing the motor in the exup servo if thats broken , running some carb cleaner through the bike ( something i do frequently) and balancing the carbs and i'd be doing all of this before i did anything else . Another thing is to go through all the electrical connections as early R1's can suffer a lot of electrical gremlins due to the badly ageing wiring and the big 20pin white main loom connector behind the left hand side fairing panel is one that definatley needs looking at ( i replaced mine about 5 or 6 years ago )
Good luck but be patient 👍
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Re: 4xv running issues just off idle.

Post by Balders »

I've sorted mine now. Wouldn't idle off throttle and died. 2000 5JJ.

I've got two sets of carbs......the old ones someone had done a hack and slash job on repairing the busted casting on two float bowls, and that ran on three cylinders. Result.......blocked pilot jets.

The other set that wouldn't idle ended up being mixture screws totally out across the board.....from 3 turns out on cylinder 1, rising to 5 turns out on cylinder 4.....with a range between 4 and 5 on the others. Reset to standard 2.5 turns. I also checked all the jets, needles, diaphraghms etc.

I also replaced the throttle cable. The old one was in a right state. Frayed, sticking and stretched. For the sake of £11 it was a no brainer. Fired first time and has done so since, and it idles fine though I would like to balance the carbs next. It has gone from being a head scratcher to an absolute weapon using the application of slow and steady approach ticking things off and being patient.

I hadn't worked on a carbed bike since 2003 and its certainly taught me patience and a methodical approach works. Hope you get it sorted mate

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Re: 4xv running issues just off idle.

Post by galaxian »

Guys, really appreciate all the advice :-)

newsh - this is not a run of the mill dynojet kit - it is the 'needle jets' themselves with installation tools. Enlarge the attached pic, I have yet to talk to anyone who has seen this kit before, don't even remember where I bought it, it was so long ago, lol.

jompy - starts easily enough. carbs have 130 main and 15 jets, I have removed them and the jet holders, soaked in carb cleaner, checked all holes clear when I replaced the float needles and seats a couple of weeks ago.
Exup appears to move smoothly no nasty noises from the motor, and still perfectly lines up with the notch, cable has a little slack each side. The white connector has a few crusty looking connections, I cleaned them as much as I could last month. When I started to experience this issue years ago the connection terminals where as good as new.

Balders - I have cleaned the main and idle jets (a couple of times to make sure). The mixture screws were set approx 3 1/2 turns out on cylinders 1 and 4, and approx 2 1/2 on cylinders 2 and 3, I have never touched them until now. This was a set of carbs from if I remember correctly a 7,000 mile bike - like an idiot I broke a float bowl stripping my original carbs when I was going to replace the needle jets.

I didn't get time to do much this weekend, but did manage to set the mixture screws at 2 1/2 turns out, still rich, it started without choke, just a little blip of throttle to keep it going for a few seconds, and idled much better than with 3 1/8 turns. Went for a spin of about 3 miles before it started to rain, but I'm convinced it was slightly better.
If i get the time next weekend I will try 1 3/4 turns and balance the carbs.
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Re: 4xv running issues just off idle.

Post by Balders »

It might be marketed as a choke.....its more of a fast idle. On my carbs one of the starter plungers was welded into the carb and the head had snapped off so it wasn't working. I've freed the whole mechanism and the whole thing works like silk on 3 cylinders.......and thats all it needs. Three or four blips of the throttle and all four running without the need for it on........cylinder one with the seized piston takes a few seconds to come on song with the other three but they all run fine with it off. I do need to balance the carbs though they are not hugely out. It pulls like a train.

Cheers

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Re: 4xv running issues just off idle.

Post by Moise »

galaxian wrote:Guys, really appreciate all the advice :-)

newsh - this is not a run of the mill dynojet kit - it is the 'needle jets' themselves with installation tools. Enlarge the attached pic, I have yet to talk to anyone who has seen this kit before, don't even remember where I bought it, it was so long ago, lol.
That's a kit to replace the needle jets after the crap DJ needles wear them out! You certainly won't need them if you have standard needles as long as they are seated properly in the slides.
galaxian wrote: jompy - starts easily enough. carbs have 130 main and 15 jets, I have removed them and the jet holders, soaked in carb cleaner, checked all holes clear when I replaced the float needles and seats a couple of weeks ago.
Exup appears to move smoothly no nasty noises from the motor, and still perfectly lines up with the notch, cable has a little slack each side. The white connector has a few crusty looking connections, I cleaned them as much as I could last month. When I started to experience this issue years ago the connection terminals where as good as new.
Deoxit is really good for cleaning and protecting the terminals. A few years ago I thought the Big White Connector would need to be replaced, but Deoxit sorted it.
galaxian wrote: Balders - I have cleaned the main and idle jets (a couple of times to make sure). The mixture screws were set approx 3 1/2 turns out on cylinders 1 and 4, and approx 2 1/2 on cylinders 2 and 3, I have never touched them until now. This was a set of carbs from if I remember correctly a 7,000 mile bike - like an idiot I broke a float bowl stripping my original carbs when I was going to replace the needle jets.

I didn't get time to do much this weekend, but did manage to set the mixture screws at 2 1/2 turns out, still rich, it started without choke, just a little blip of throttle to keep it going for a few seconds, and idled much better than with 3 1/8 turns. Went for a spin of about 3 miles before it started to rain, but I'm convinced it was slightly better.
If i get the time next weekend I will try 1 3/4 turns and balance the carbs.
I might try 2.5 turns as my bike still bogs sometimes when it's hot. It won't start or idle without choke, except when it's warm, and my bike is kept that is part of the house.


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Re: 4xv running issues just off idle.

Post by newsh »

@galaxian

If the carbs were last balanced with the mixture screws set oddly it will certainly benefit from a balance.

Just remembered
It used to be a thing to put a washer under the circlip on the needle to richen up for a slipon, not convinced it ever worked that well but loads of people did it. Check that you just have one washer on the needle, it should be on top of the circlip to stop the circlip getting screwed onto the spring.

If you still have rich bogging off idle it’s worth checking float heights (or better still float bowl fuel level). Try lowering fuel level 1mm at a time to sort the bottom end, Marc @ Factory Pro recommends this, if you lower a lot then you may then have to go up on the mains to get your top end back. Best running 4XV I ever had was running the Factory Pro Kit.

I see the Needle jets now, yes DJ wrecked a bunch of carbs with their abrasive early needles.
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Re: 4xv running issues just off idle.

Post by Moise »

Further to what Newsh said, my bike runs better with thin, 3mm washers to shim the needles. I had tried raising the needle clips one groove, but it felt too rich.

The sensitivity of the carbs to small changes in the pilot circuit and needle position may be due to the standard float level being too high. I haven't tried adjusting them as the bike runs very well as it is now.



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