4xv running issues just off idle.

New to the forum? Then say hello here
User avatar
galaxian
Lurker
Posts: 19
Joined: Fri May 18, 2018 9:33 am
Bike Make & Model: 1999 R1 4XV
Location: N.Ireland
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 0

4xv running issues just off idle.

Post by galaxian »

Hi guys,
I have owned a 99 bike from new and its been off the road for the last 6 years, got another bike and sort of lost interest due to a running issue I couldn't resolve. This is not a problem caused by old fuel not being drained, in fact after buying a new battery it burst into life after about 2 seconds and ran on all four cylinders exactly as it did before it was put away. (I did drain the old fuel, new oil, filters etc before mot last month)
From around 10 thousand miles it has had a worsening issue from just off idle to approx 3.5 thousand RPM, it does this with the standard end can or my Demon aftermarket can (no difference), it stutters and vibrates then runs fine to the redline. I cleaned jets and cleaned with carb cleaner, new genuine air filter, new plugs, 2nd hand set of coils and leads, no difference.
I then read about the the potential issues with wear on the emulsion tubes, so I bought a set from Dynojet, but damaged one of the carbs when disassembling them. :?
So I then purchased a set of low mileage 5JJ carbs, hoping all my problems would disappear, but no difference.
Stuck it the back of the shed after mot ran out in 2014.
I assume its running a little rich, so set the air screws 2 turns out last week, but it made no detectable difference.
Last week I opened up the carbs and installed a Yambits rebuild kit, reset the air screws to 3 1/8 turns out and no difference, except it wont idle nice but that may be just the need for a carb sync as it ok when actually moving.

Any ideas where I look next ?

Thanks,

Colin.

PS totally standard, no mods apart from the end can.


https://yambits.co.uk/yzf-r1-float-valv ... 89358.html


User avatar
R1Clarky
Donator
Donator
Posts: 6445
Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2014 11:42 am
Bike Make & Model: Yamaha R1 5JJ
Location: Leicestershire
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 0

Re: 4xv running issues just off idle.

Post by R1Clarky »

i had a not dissimilar issue which turned out to be exup valve related, one of the cable sheath retainers had rusted off so exup operation has severely hampered.... worth checking just in case ( thanks again jompers me ol monkey mate for cheap as f**k headers ) good luck bud oh & welcome in....piccys when yer can pal

Sent from my SM-N960F using Tapatalk

Treat everyone with respect unless they prove themselves to be Unworthy :-)
User avatar
R1ch
Donator
Donator
Posts: 1977
Joined: Wed Dec 12, 2012 7:03 pm
Bike Make & Model: R1m
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 23 times

Re: 4xv running issues just off idle.

Post by R1ch »

R1Clarky wrote: Wed Aug 25, 2021 2:47 pm i had a not dissimilar issue which turned out to be exup valve related, one of the cable sheath retainers had rusted off so exup operation has severely hampered.... worth checking just in case ( thanks again jompers me ol monkey mate for cheap as f**k headers Image) good luck bud oh & welcome in....piccys when yer can pal

Sent from my SM-N960F using Tapatalk
2nd'ed.. sounds like exup valve
User avatar
galaxian
Lurker
Posts: 19
Joined: Fri May 18, 2018 9:33 am
Bike Make & Model: 1999 R1 4XV
Location: N.Ireland
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 0

Re: 4xv running issues just off idle.

Post by galaxian »

Thanks guys,I will give it another check, I did check it before and it was moving as expected a number of years back,was fine then with the same symptoms. Was going to do it again a few weeks ago but the cover bolts have siezed, I broke one off, and decided to leave the others alone as I'm 100% sure they will twist off as well.
User avatar
R15UTT
Donator
Donator
Posts: 909
Joined: Wed May 07, 2014 12:27 am
Bike Make & Model: yamaha R1.98 +09
Location: South Glamorgan
Has thanked: 9 times
Been thanked: 17 times
Contact:

Re: 4xv running issues just off idle.

Post by R15UTT »

Might as well try the other bolts Col' . It's only a chrome cover . & then you can see if the Exup V'v is working . The bolts can be another project for when the running is sorted . Go for it . From another Colin . Look for a cobalt drill if too hard for HSS drills to drill out broken bolts .
User avatar
galaxian
Lurker
Posts: 19
Joined: Fri May 18, 2018 9:33 am
Bike Make & Model: 1999 R1 4XV
Location: N.Ireland
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 0

Re: 4xv running issues just off idle.

Post by galaxian »

Will do, have the carbs off and hope to pick up some Allen bolts for the float bowls tomorrow, will be the weekend before I get to look at the exup.
I will report back what I find.
Cheers guys.
User avatar
Moise
Donator
Donator
Posts: 8889
Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2014 8:19 am
Bike Make & Model: Yamaha R1 4xv
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Has thanked: 59 times
Been thanked: 59 times

Re: 4xv running issues just off idle.

Post by Moise »

It would definitely be worth checking the EXUP valve. But it doesn't open until about 4000 rpm, so it might not be the problem.

When you turn the engine off, it opens part way, I assume to allow exhaust gas in the headers to escape. That's probably the easiest way to check if it is working. Some say that it fully opens and closes when you turn on the ignition, but not on the 4xv.

If it's not the carbs and the EXUP, it has to be the ignition. I assume you're tried new plugs?

Edit: You might find the idle improves if you refit the original mixture screws. I have no idea why these are included in carb service kits.

Sent from my SM-G980F using Tapatalk







"You don't get slower with age, you just get more cautious." Michael Rutter

1999 4xv in blue
User avatar
galaxian
Lurker
Posts: 19
Joined: Fri May 18, 2018 9:33 am
Bike Make & Model: 1999 R1 4XV
Location: N.Ireland
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 0

Re: 4xv running issues just off idle.

Post by galaxian »

Hi Moise, yes I have changed the plugs In the past and no change, bought another set of coils and plug caps as well.
I'll try and balance my carbs and if no luck with the idle I'll put the original screws back in.
I am fairly sure I will find the exup working. Bought a crank sensor years ago, but never got around to fitting it, not sure where it is now..
User avatar
Moise
Donator
Donator
Posts: 8889
Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2014 8:19 am
Bike Make & Model: Yamaha R1 4xv
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Has thanked: 59 times
Been thanked: 59 times

Re: 4xv running issues just off idle.

Post by Moise »

When the problem started, what was the rev range where it happened? You've said it worsened - did the problem change, or does it now happen over a wider range?

Sent from my SM-G980F using Tapatalk

"You don't get slower with age, you just get more cautious." Michael Rutter

1999 4xv in blue
User avatar
galaxian
Lurker
Posts: 19
Joined: Fri May 18, 2018 9:33 am
Bike Make & Model: 1999 R1 4XV
Location: N.Ireland
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 0

Re: 4xv running issues just off idle.

Post by galaxian »

Hi Moise, the issue got progressively worse, same problem and instead of just feeling like a little 'miss' about 2000 rpm, it got more pronounced and lasts up to maybe 3500 or so. Obviously worse when under load using higher gears, no fun at all with a passenger in town.
User avatar
R15UTT
Donator
Donator
Posts: 909
Joined: Wed May 07, 2014 12:27 am
Bike Make & Model: yamaha R1.98 +09
Location: South Glamorgan
Has thanked: 9 times
Been thanked: 17 times
Contact:

Re: 4xv running issues just off idle.

Post by R15UTT »

galaxian wrote: Wed Aug 25, 2021 7:50 pm Will do, have the carbs off and hope to pick up some Allen bolts for the float bowls tomorrow, will be the weekend before I get to look at the exup.
I will report back what I find.
Cheers guys.
thumb up. I'D SAY THUMBS , BUT LOST ONE IN '96,
User avatar
Moise
Donator
Donator
Posts: 8889
Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2014 8:19 am
Bike Make & Model: Yamaha R1 4xv
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Has thanked: 59 times
Been thanked: 59 times

Re: 4xv running issues just off idle.

Post by Moise »

galaxian wrote:Hi Moise, the issue got progressively worse, same problem and instead of just feeling like a little 'miss' about 2000 rpm, it got more pronounced and lasts up to maybe 3500 or so. Obviously worse when under load using higher gears, no fun at all with a passenger in town.
My 4xv does something similar at low revs if you give it too much throttle, say 2000 to 2500 rpm. It's OK at a steady speed, but is not happy if I open the throttle too far - runs rough and vibrates. I usually just change down.

But your bike sounds worse than that. Is your cam chain tensioner OK?

Sent from my SM-G980F using Tapatalk

"You don't get slower with age, you just get more cautious." Michael Rutter

1999 4xv in blue
User avatar
galaxian
Lurker
Posts: 19
Joined: Fri May 18, 2018 9:33 am
Bike Make & Model: 1999 R1 4XV
Location: N.Ireland
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 0

Re: 4xv running issues just off idle.

Post by galaxian »

It does it with any throttle input, how do I check the tensioner ?
Thanks
User avatar
Moise
Donator
Donator
Posts: 8889
Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2014 8:19 am
Bike Make & Model: Yamaha R1 4xv
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Has thanked: 59 times
Been thanked: 59 times

Re: 4xv running issues just off idle.

Post by Moise »

galaxian wrote: Thu Aug 26, 2021 8:59 pm It does it with any throttle input, how do I check the tensioner ?
Thanks
That's different to what I have then. I doubt it's the CCT in that case.

Must be ignition, especially if it happens for any throttle setting. I have a few thoughts, but will post later as I should be working! (Friday morning in NZ).
"You don't get slower with age, you just get more cautious." Michael Rutter

1999 4xv in blue
User avatar
galaxian
Lurker
Posts: 19
Joined: Fri May 18, 2018 9:33 am
Bike Make & Model: 1999 R1 4XV
Location: N.Ireland
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 0

Re: 4xv running issues just off idle.

Post by galaxian »

Thanks, I won't be able to look at the bike until the weekend, I'll be putting my carbs back on, and if I can find my CarbtuneTool, balancing the carbs, then snapping off the exup cover bolts, lol, to check 100% it's working.
User avatar
Moise
Donator
Donator
Posts: 8889
Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2014 8:19 am
Bike Make & Model: Yamaha R1 4xv
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Has thanked: 59 times
Been thanked: 59 times

Re: 4xv running issues just off idle.

Post by Moise »

galaxian wrote: Thu Aug 26, 2021 9:28 pm Thanks, I won't be able to look at the bike until the weekend, I'll be putting my carbs back on, and if I can find my CarbtuneTool, balancing the carbs, then snapping off the exup cover bolts, lol, to check 100% it's working.
Do check the EXUP cables are adjusted correctly. The procedure is in the service manual, although 1.5 mm for the free play might be a bit tight
"You don't get slower with age, you just get more cautious." Michael Rutter

1999 4xv in blue
User avatar
malr1
Donator
Donator
Posts: 322
Joined: Mon Sep 02, 2019 8:52 pm
Bike Make & Model: 98 R1
Has thanked: 7 times
Been thanked: 18 times

Re: 4xv running issues just off idle.

Post by malr1 »

Everyone is correct in what they say especially after the bike has been laid up for 6 years. Seeing as it's a misfire you're kind of describing, I would also remove the coil packs, take off the plug caps and cut back the leads about an inch and then refit the caps. The leads corrode at the caps but clean up easy. When I did mine, because of rough running, I couldn't believe the difference it made.
Let us all know how you get on.
Last edited by malr1 on Fri Aug 27, 2021 2:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
malr1
Donator
Donator
Posts: 322
Joined: Mon Sep 02, 2019 8:52 pm
Bike Make & Model: 98 R1
Has thanked: 7 times
Been thanked: 18 times

Re: 4xv running issues just off idle.

Post by malr1 »

galaxian wrote: Thu Aug 26, 2021 9:28 pm Thanks, I won't be able to look at the bike until the weekend, I'll be putting my carbs back on, and if I can find my CarbtuneTool, balancing the carbs, then snapping off the exup cover bolts, lol, to check 100% it's working.
If you're balancing the carbs, you will have the tank off. You can see the Exup servo motor with the tank off and will be able to see the pulley move when you blip the throttle.
Ride it to Dorset from Northern Ireland, I'll fix it for you. :-)
User avatar
galaxian
Lurker
Posts: 19
Joined: Fri May 18, 2018 9:33 am
Bike Make & Model: 1999 R1 4XV
Location: N.Ireland
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 0

Re: 4xv running issues just off idle.

Post by galaxian »

I have always seen the motor and cable move perfect fine, I just haven't actually watched the valve turn under the cover.
User avatar
galaxian
Lurker
Posts: 19
Joined: Fri May 18, 2018 9:33 am
Bike Make & Model: 1999 R1 4XV
Location: N.Ireland
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 0

Re: 4xv running issues just off idle.

Post by galaxian »

That would be a nice run to Dorset if the weather stayed as it is up here today :-)
User avatar
Moise
Donator
Donator
Posts: 8889
Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2014 8:19 am
Bike Make & Model: Yamaha R1 4xv
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Has thanked: 59 times
Been thanked: 59 times

Re: 4xv running issues just off idle.

Post by Moise »

If changing the coils and plug leads made no difference, then it is unlikely to be the HT side of the coils. It would still be worth checking the leads where they connect to the spark plug caps as malr1 suggested, as this is a common problem on the 4xv and 5jj. Also check the wiring to the coils and the connector by the carbs. The ignition system on the carbed R1's is a bit marginal, so it is important that the the coils are getting the full 12V. You can't check the voltage with a meter, as the coils are only powered when the engine is running.
"You don't get slower with age, you just get more cautious." Michael Rutter

1999 4xv in blue
User avatar
galaxian
Lurker
Posts: 19
Joined: Fri May 18, 2018 9:33 am
Bike Make & Model: 1999 R1 4XV
Location: N.Ireland
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 0

Re: 4xv running issues just off idle.

Post by galaxian »

I did read a post regarding this, someone had wired 12v directly from the battery. The coil connector close to the TPS is nice and clean, I lubed with a little acf50 to keep corrosion away.
User avatar
galaxian
Lurker
Posts: 19
Joined: Fri May 18, 2018 9:33 am
Bike Make & Model: 1999 R1 4XV
Location: N.Ireland
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 0

Re: 4xv running issues just off idle.

Post by galaxian »

Had a busy day, but did have time to look at the exup, it moves fine, and there is just enough slop in the cable for me to freely move it by hand slightly, so cover back on using the one bolt I managed to free.
Double checked the air screws were 3 1/8 turns out.
Put the standard can back on just for fun.
Weather forecast is too good tomorrow to work on it so will go for a spin.
User avatar
galaxian
Lurker
Posts: 19
Joined: Fri May 18, 2018 9:33 am
Bike Make & Model: 1999 R1 4XV
Location: N.Ireland
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 0

Re: 4xv running issues just off idle.

Post by galaxian »

Runs a little better with the standard can, but very rich, started with no choke and needs a little throttle when starting warm.
Maybe turn back the air screws a turn ??

Image
User avatar
newsh
Been here too long
Posts: 2661
Joined: Wed Oct 01, 2014 9:29 pm
Bike Make & Model: R1 2015
Has thanked: 21 times
Been thanked: 20 times

Re: 4xv running issues just off idle.

Post by newsh »

Standard setting for the screws is 2.5 turns out from lightly seated.

What pilot jets does it have in it? The earlier bikes had #17.5s. They run better with #15s.
Old enough to know better.
Post Reply